Email exchange between Ricky Cheever and a SDARM Member.

Email exchange between Ricky Cheever and a SDARM Member. Ricky was disfellowshipped from the SDARM in Florida over the nature of Christ and his stance for it.

Jesus took our fallen nature (with 4000 years of degeneracy) upon His sinless nature. That’s why when He was on earth He was just like the men of that time. Except for some statements that say “His divinity flashed forth through his humanity” there was really nothing unusual or special about Jesus that He stood out as coming from Heaven as the Son of God and Saviour of the world, else, the Jews would have readily accepted Him as the Messiah. I do not think we understand exactly what it means for Jesus to take upon Him our fallen nature with 4000 years of degeneration yet remained without sin. What helps me to understand this a little bit is a quote from The Great Controversy on page 644

Human nature is the same BEFORE the Fall as well as AFTER the Fall because human nature simply means the mind of man. It is comprised of the higher powers (reason, conscience, Will) and the lower powers (appetite, emotion, passion). What happened after the Fall is that within this one nature are two opposing principles at work. Man now experiences a weakness, a tendency, a propensity to choose evil instead of good. SDARM Member

We have an inherited nature as well as a cultivated nature. Our inherited nature is the nature which we receive by genetics and which we have no choice in the matter. The cultivated nature is the mind, which we cultivate in accordance with the thought processes we generate. Every thought that we originate is a neuropathway which we develop and cultivate. This is not to be confused with the thoughts that Satan and the holy Angels can place in our minds to influence us. We are not judged by the inherited nature we receive nor by the thoughts that the Angels place in our minds. The only thing we are judged by are the thoughts that we generate ourselves. This was the Mystery which Sr. White says we cannot comprehend; how Christ could take on humanity in its fallen condition, with all the evil tendencies to which man is heir, and never allow his cultivated nature, His mind, to be corrupted by the evil thoughts that Satan puts in our minds and by the evil influences that surrounded Him. I can’t explain how that worked, it is a mystery. Ricky Cheever.

Jesus is the unblemished Lamb of God. He took our sins upon Him but that didn’t make Him a sinner. Likewise, He took our fallen, sinful nature with all its liabilities upon His sinless nature and that didn’t make Him a sinner either. To me a fallen nature is synonymous with a carnal nature (mind) which is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God (Rom 8:6,7). Jesus was not carnal in any way because the Law is a transcript of His character–holy, just, and good. His nature recoiled from evil. Evil was painful to Him. We are told that we should have “no misgivings in regard to the perfect SINLESSNESS of the human nature of Christ.” SDA BC page 1131; ST 1898.

Do you see how easy it is to come to this conclusion if you don’t know the difference between the inherited nature and the cultivated nature? Fortunately Sr. White and the pioneers understood this concept very well and didn’t get confused on this. Notice the harmony: Ricky Cheever

Coming, as He did, as a man, with all the evil tendencies to which man is heir, He made it possible for Himself to be buffeted by human agencies inspired by Satan, to meet and be subjected to, the rebel who had been expelled from heaven, working in every conceivable manner to destroy his faith. Letter K-303, 1903

Do you think this refers to His inherited nature or His cultivated nature? Ricky Cheever.

With sinful tendencies in his flesh, he never sinned, but “condemned sin (overthrew sin) in the flesh,” a triumphant conqueror, first over sinful flesh, second over the results of sin, death. Rom. 8:3, 4. This is our Redeemer. He knows how to help; he is “mighty to save.” The Established Faith of the Body page 98, ST, Sept. 16, 1889, ST, Aug. 12, 1889. Also found in the GC Bulletin.

Jesus voluntarily took upon His holy nature our sinful nature. He was tempted in all points as we are. He was tired, hungry, thirsty, and was refreshed by sleep. However, there is a difference between voluntarily taking upon Him our sinful nature and “inheriting” sinful nature in the way that we understand the meaning of the word “inherit.” SDARM Member

Can you explain what the meaning of the word inherit is, as Sr White and the Pioneers used it above? Please answer. Ricky Cheever.

In The Great Controversy, page 644, we’re told this: “All come forth from their graves the same in stature as when they entered the tomb. Adam, who stands among the risen throng, is of lofty height and majestic form, in stature BUT LITTLE BELOW THE SON OF GOD. He presents a marked contrast to the people of later generations; in this one respect is shown the great degeneracy of the race. But all arise with the freshness and vigor of eternal youth….Restored to the tree of life in the long-lost Eden, the redeemed will “grow up” to the full stature of the race in its primeval glory.” SDARM Member.

In this quote, Jesus is shown as being taller than Adam. Jesus, 12-15 feet tall. What happened to the law of heredity we’re told in the Desire of Ages, page 49, that “like every child of Adam He accepted the results of the working of the great law of heredity”? What happened to the 4000 years of degeneracy that Jesus took upon Him? Perhaps herein lies the mystery of this whole topic–the mysterious blending of the human nature and the divine nature of Christ. This blending of Christ’s two natures did not make the Godhead human nor the human deified (3SM 131). The redeemed would have to partake of the tree of life (leaves and fruits) to grow up into the stature of the race in its primeval glory and also to perpetuate eternal life and vigor. Jesus didn’t need to partake of the tree of life because in Him was life original, unborrowed, underived. SDARM MEMBER.

Jesus grew to be taller than Adam while in heaven. I’m not sure what this has to do with the Law of Heredity. I will tell you what DA 49 tells me. What did you receive from your parents? What did Solomon, and Manasa receive from their parents? What did Cain and Abel receive from their parents? Ricky Cheever

Because of sin his (Adams) posterity was born with inherent propensities of disobedience. 5BC 1128.4

How many sins do you think Adam committed? Did he commit adultery? Did he steal? Did he kill? David did all of these and then some. Who do you suppose received the most weaknesses, Abel or Christ? Please explain what happened to Christ since He accepted the results of the working of the great law of heredity just like every child of Adam. This is what I understand happened after 4000 years of degeneracy. And as to how or why He grew to a greater height than Adam, I haven’t a thus saith the Lord on the subject, so I would be just speculating. Ricky Cheever

We are warned NOT to present Jesus to the people as being just like us because He wasn’t. Jesus was/is 100% God and 100% human. Yes, Jesus was 100% human but He was NOT LIKE US. He was conceived of the Holy Ghost. Unlike us Christ’s brain was not etched by familiarity with sin and habitual acts of sin. He did not have a personal predilection or propensity to sin. This was impossible, because He never sinned. SDARM Member

“He was elevated above the human. He was especially sustained by the glory of God which enshrouded Him.” Signs of the Times, June 11, 1874.

Do you know of anyone who tries to present Jesus to the people as being altogether one as we are? I only ask since you bring it up as if someone does. I have never heard anyone say such a thing. We can only conclude that Brother Baker did by what she wrote to him to straighten him out on the doctrine of adoptionism which taught that very thing. If you are insinuating that I believe such a thing, please refresh my memory as to what or when I said such a thing. Remember this: Ricky Cheever.

If a brother differ with you on some points of truth, do not stoop to ridicule, do not place him in a false light, or misconstrue his words, making sport of them; do not misinterpret his words and wrest them of their true meaning. This is not conscientious argument. Letter 21, 1888

We are different from Christ. We received the Holy Spirit at conversion after we have obtained years and years of committing sins. We have a propensity to sin. We carry excess baggage. The born-again experience will give us a new nature! SDARM Member.

Conversion is nothing more than our giving our hearts to God. Christ did the same thing. That doesn’t make Him different from us but identical to us. Ricky Cheever

The Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy agree that Jesus was tempted in ALL points as we are yet without sin. How was Jesus tempted in all points like as we are if He was so different from us? In the Wilderness of temptation, Jesus passed the test in all areas where men are tempted–the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. Satan tempts born-again Christians in exactly the same way he tempts Christ–by forcing the tempted ones to reveal their natural natures. The natural natures of the born-again Christians are wicked which they do NOT want to reveal. Christ’s natural nature is divine which He desired to reveal it. To fail here is SELFISHNESS–a sin against God. All sin (transgression of the Law) is selfishness.   SDARM Member

Can you help me harmonize what you just stated with these statements? Ricky Cheever

Coming, as He did, as a man, with all the evil tendencies to which man is heir, He made it possible for Himself to be buffeted by human agencies inspired by Satan, to meet and be subjected to, the rebel who had been expelled from heaven, working in every conceivable manner to destroy his faith. Letter K-303, 1903

With sinful tendencies in his flesh, he never sinned, but “condemned sin (overthrew sin) in the flesh,” a triumphant conqueror, first over sinful flesh, second over the results of sin, death. Rom. 8:3, 4. This is our Redeemer. He knows how to help; he is “mighty to save.” The Established Faith of the Body page 98

“To keep His glory veiled as the child of a fallen race, this was the most severe discipline to which the Prince of life could subject Himself.” “It was as difficult for Him to keep the level of humanity as for man to rise above the low level of their depraved natures, and be partakers of the divine nature.” SDA BC 7A 650, 655

Do you get tempted to shoot heroin? Or does the thought seem repulsive to you? If it seems repulsive to you, then you understand how Christ felt when under temptation. It wasn’t because his humanity was any different from ours, for it was identical. It was because he trained his mind to want to do what is right. Ricky Cheever

His human nature was created; it did not even possess angelic powers. It was human, identical to our own. — Ellen White, Ms. 94, 1893

Be careful not to confuse His inherited nature with His mind (His cultivated nature). Ricky Cheever

Both, the born-again Christians and Christ must rely on total surrender to divine control–Christ to His Father and us to Christ. Jesus did not use His divinity in any way to aid Himself or to get Him out of trouble. He surrendered totally to His Heavenly Father. His surrender led Him to Calvary. Our surrender leads us to eternal life and peace with God. SDARM Member.

Very good observation.

The question that has been asked in all segments of Adventism: “Which nature did Christ inherit–pre-fall (sinless) or post-fall (sinful)?” is irrelevant. Jesus inherited human nature the same human nature that Adam was created with and He won the victory against Satan in that nature. He began where the first Adam began. Although He “assumed” the weakness of a nature affected by the Fall, He CHOSE to yield His WILL to His Heavenly Father and, therefore, vanquished Satan in human nature. Likewise, through the indwelling Christ, we, too, can be victorious against Satan in our human nature through the born-again experience. SDARM Member

You also conclude that the understanding of which nature He took is irrelevant. Maybe to you it is irrelevant, but when presenting it to others it is very relevant. Ricky Cheever

There are many who in their hearts murmur against God. They say, “We inherit the fallen nature of Adam, and are not responsible for our natural imperfections.” They find fault with God’s requirements, and complain that He demands what they have no power to give. Satan made the same complaint in heaven, but such thoughts dishonor God. — ST 8/29/92, p. 662, col 3

If, as the 1888 message teaches, Christ also took the fallen sinful nature of man, with all its evil tendencies, then these people who murmur against God have no case. If for no other reason, this would be sufficient reason to present the 1888 message in all it’s glory, not denying any part of it. Any comments on this thought? Obviously you couldn’t make the same claim they do since you say Jesus inherited human nature the same human nature that Adam was created with and He won the victory against Satan in that nature. I assume from your statement that you are referring to the sinless nature he had before his fall. Please confirm. Forgive my ignorance, but I must ask, what evil tendencies was Adam created with? I really do need these answers to understand where you stand on the issue. Ricky Cheever

Coming, as He did, as a man, with all the evil tendencies to which man is heir, He made it possible for Himself to be buffeted by human agencies inspired by Satan, to meet and be subjected to, the rebel who had been expelled from heaven, working in every conceivable manner to destroy his faith. Letter K-303, 1903

God must be vindicated for creating man with a SINLESS NATURE for it was in this nature that he was overcome. SDARM Member.

Actually, God must be vindicated for saving man in his fallen condition, and not saving Satan and his angels. This is why Christ had to come in the fallen, sinful nature of man, to show that man, in his fallen sinful nature can live a life of obedience. Ricky Cheever

Christ vanquished Satan IN THE SAME NATURE over which in Eden Satan obtained the victory. SDA BC v5 p. 1108

Could you post me the whole quote that says this? I can’t find it. Ricky Cheever

Christ began where the first Adam began, willingly he passed over the ground where Adam fell and redeemed Adam’s failure.” SDA BC 7A 650

Did Adam begin with a fallen human nature with 4000 years of degeneration? If not, then maybe we need to understand better what the context of this text is. Ricky Cheever

This is my understanding of this very important topic. If I am wrong, someone correct me because this is what I believe to be the meaning of the human nature of Christ and I share it with those who ask. SDARM Member.

I am giving you 4 positions from 4 different sources. Could you let me know, if there isn’t one that matches exactly, which one most closely resembles your understanding of the Humanity of Christ? Feel free to refer to your statements above to decide. Ricky Cheever

#1. There have been men who refused to believe that God would humble himself so much as to become really man. They taught that Jesus had only the appearance of a man. We know that Gods love is such that he sent his Son down to become a real man. Really one of us. He took the nature of a slave. As Paul tells us, fashioned in the likeness of men and presenting himself to us in human form. Jesus had and will have forever all that makes a real man. He had a man’s soul that was directly created by God as ours was and a man’s body that he took from his mother. He had all the powers of a man, his mind learned in the way ours does. He used it to think to know to plan and to judge. He had a man’s free will, he had a man’s love, and with it he loved his Father and loved all men for the sake of his father. His body was in every way a man’s body with the senses and powers of a man. It had the needs of a man’s body, food and rest. It could feel weariness and pain as a man’s body can. It developed from babyhood, to boyhood, to the full manhood as every man’s body does. He had the feelings of a man and he showed those feelings as a man does. Joy in his faithful friends, sorrow at hard-hearted pride and betrayal, sympathy with others in their sorrows. Because he was a real man, he could suffer for us both in body and in soul.

#2. There are three related concepts regarding the kind of sinless nature Christ took in the incarnation:

  1. Christ took the nature of Adam before He fell.
  2. Christ took a fallen physical and deteriorated human body but not our fallen spiritual nature. (He received no sinful tendencies.)
  3. Christ was preserved from the law of heredity in conception by the power of the Holy Spirit.

He (Jesus) must possess that which He offers us. If Christ proposes to restore man to his first estate, he must come to man standing in that estate himself. He must come standing where Adam, the first owner, stood before he fell.

The body of Christ was a body in which God was incarnate, and as God and Satan cannot dwell together, the body of Christ must have been a body from which even every tendency to sin must have been wholly eradicated.

Where did Adam stand before his fall? He was holy. Now, in order to pass over the same ground that Adam passed over, Christ would most assuredly have to begin just where Adam began! Now, we know that his divinity was holy, and if his humanity was holy, then we do know that that thing which was born of the virgin Mary was in every sense a holy thing, and did not possess the tendency to sin.

He took a body which showed by its deteriorated condition that the effects of sin were shown by it, but His life proved that there was no sin in it. It was a body which the Father had prepared for Him. Heb. 10:5. Christ’s body represented a body redeemed from its fallen spiritual nature, but not from its fallen, or deteriorated physical nature. It was a body redeemed from sin, and with that body Christ clothed His divinity.

#3. In His humanity Christ partook of our sinful fallen nature. If not then He was not made like unto His Brethren, was not in all points tempted as we are, did not overcome, as we have to overcome and is therefore the complete, perfect Saviour man needs and must have to be saved. The idea that Christ was born of an immaculate or sinless mother, inherited no tendencies to sin, and for this reason did not sin; removes him from the realm of a fallen world and from the very place where help is needed. On his human side Christ inherited just what every child of Adam inherits, a sinful nature. On the divine side from the very conception he was begotten and born of the spirit as all are and all this was done to place mankind on vantage ground and to demonstrate that in the same way everyone who is born of the spirit may gain like victories over sin in his own sinful flesh. Thus each one is to overcome as Christ overcame. Without this birth there can be no victory over temptation and no salvation from sin. God in Christ, condemned sin not by pronouncing against it merely as a judge sitting on the judgment seat, but by coming and living in sinful flesh and yet without sinning. In Christ he demonstrated that it is possible by his grace and power to resist temptation, overcome sin and live a sinless life in sinful flesh.

#4. Adam was tempted by the enemy, and he fell. It was not indwelling sin that caused him to yield; for God made him pure and upright, in His own image. He was as faultless as the angels before the throne. There were in him no corrupt principles, no tendencies to evil. But when Christ came to meet the temptations of Satan, He bore the “likeness of sinful flesh. Coming, as He did, as a man, with all the evil tendencies to which man is heir, He made it possible for Himself to be buffeted by human agencies inspired by Satan, to meet and be subjected to, the rebel who had been expelled from heaven, working in every conceivable manner to destroy his faith. Think of Christ’s humiliation. He took upon himself fallen, suffering human nature, degraded and defiled by sin. Like every child of Adam He accepted the results of the working of the great law of heredity. Ricky Cheever

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5 comments

  1. my email is lopezm5220@yahoo.com
    can you tell me were i can find the letter k 303 1903 and the cotacion
    The Established Faith of the Body page 98
    also i ben stay this subject for some time so if you can have this statement send to me . please and tank you god bless
    bro.

    1. You’ll need to contact the EGW estate or search the database. I have as much info as yourself. Ricky has a scanned in copy of the letter.

  2. RICKY CHEEVER a personal question are you were a sdarm, and if you were what happen . can you cheer ?

    1. Ricky was a SDARM member and is now a IMS member. He was disfellowshipped from the SDARM for his views. He’s happy now.

      1. MARIO LOPEZ · ·

        The Typist commented: “Ricky was a SDARM member and is now a IMS member. He was disfellowshipped from the SDARM for his views. He’s happy now.” | | Respond to this comment by replying above this line |

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        | New comment on Truth Versus Error on the Nature of Christ… | |

        | | | The Typist commented on Email exchange between Ricky Cheever and a SDARM Member.. in response to mario: RICKY CHEEVER a personal question are you were a sdarm, and if you were what happen . can you cheer ? Ricky was a SDARM member and is now a IMS member. He was disfellowshipped from the SDARM for his views. He’s happy now. | Reply bro risky the ism believed the same way of swarm, and the sda church what do you means the you are happy now you have the same problem still what the let you bilibe what you want or yes life you alone whit your views, or meby you question is do what i bilive is correct or not, . please replay . my email is lopezm5220@yahoo.com |    Comments |

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